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The first iPhone did not have 3G when it came out, no GPS either, and no App Store - you were stuck with all the stock apps. It was definitely far behind its peers in several key aspects

Here’s a flashback: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/original-iphone-review/


I understand how a computer can know that a chess move is more likely to lead to a win, and therefore “correct”, but I don’t understand how it can know that a token is correct. Can someone explain?

>I don’t understand how it can know that a token is correct.

It can't. The next token is just the most statistically probably given the context (at least in transformers). Try a very small/weak model in your own machine and more often than not it would get stuck repeating the same word or even just output garbage. Because after training and quantization (where some information is lost), that's the most probable next token. Large models can be tricked to fall in the same behavior with very very specific inputs. Still happen, even in frontier models. And they can't detect if the output is wrong.

That's why the premise in TFA is wrong, because a transformer is a next-token predictor. It literally is that. There's nothing secret or magical, it's just a very mechanical process, with a lot of matrix multiplication, normalization, a few random passes, mappings between embeddings and a dictionary of tokens, in a very very high scale.

If someone has found something that's not a mechanical, algorithmic computation and llms are doing something nobody can explain and can't even be modeled in math, I'm happy to be educated.


classical particles obey deterministic state evolution rules, yet put 10 in a box and you cannot say where they will be 5 minutes later.

Your point being? llms are software running in a fixed pipeline (barring variance induced by randomness in some layers). There's nothing like decoherence/thermal effects in a "lower level" that could induce stochastic behavior in a higher level. There's no Brownian motion in llms, if that's your analog with classical mechanics. You might argue emergent behavior that would look ordered/intelligent in some way and nature's full of examples of that but we don't attribute intelligence to physical processes.

You cannot put classical particles anywhere.

> It can't.

Neither can you. This is the whole debate.


The LLM produces a probability distribution over the likelihood of all possible next tokens. So whatever the tokens are, "ch", "ex", etc. the next one gets a probability.

During training, real life text is fed through the LLM, and rhe "correct" token is the one actually observed in the training text. Here's a recent video walkthrough in some detail, mostly aimed at providing a deeper understanding than "next token predictor function":

https://youtu.be/GlYgs6v2YfU?is=IxVMhoCCE4N4WRVK

(Start at 15:30 for the LLM specific parts)


Thanks - that makes sense. On that basis the article’s thesis is totally wrong - it would be like a computer program rating its ability based on how well it predicts moves played by grandmasters in the past. It’s not inventing new moves.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Anybody who's playing a chess game is predicting their next move, whether or not they're inventing new moves.

LLMs are not simple things like a Markov model, there's a lot going on in there, it's not deterministic, and it's completely capable of creating entire new styles of play based on complex interactions of internal states.


> LLMs are not simple things like a Markov model

"Large Language Models as Markov Chains" https://www.alphaxiv.org/pdf/2410.02724


Argh, what I wrote was obviously wrong. What I meant was to refer to the simple n-state Markov models as used past decades.

Anything that's sequential, like language is, will exhibit Markovian properties, and be somewhat a "Markov" model.

Markov chains are a different concept than a Markov model, but I do agree that, technically, an LLM is a Markov model, just with an internal state space that is nothing like what is usually meant when ML people refer to Markov models.


During training, certain tokens are more likely to lead to a lower loss function value, which is how you "win" the game of LLM output.

So, next-token predictors

I keep seeing this stochastically parroted here. Perhaps by humans but how knows?

Three days late homie

And any next-comment predictor could have predicted your totally unhelpful, uninsightful, and unoriginal comment.

You -- along with everyone else who keeps parroting this thought-stopping phrase and other tired cliches like "stochastic parrot", simply because you heard other people say them, without understanding what they really mean, which published research papers they came from, or what those and other papers actually argued -- are desperately clinging to a reductive, short-sighted, shallow, simplistic model like a drowning person clutching a concrete life preserver.

Seriously, we are trying to throw you a lifeline, and you are refusing even to participate in your own rescue. So squawk for yourself.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48395727

> The term "stochastic parrot" is a slogan masquerading as an explanation, only a shallow surface description of the mechanism, that totally fails to explain the phenomenon, or account for all that LLMs and language itself can do.

Here is the original 2021 paper that coined the phrase. It was not primarily an argument about consciousness, nor did its title constitute experimental proof that everything an LLM does can be explained as parroting. It was principally a position paper about the risks of increasingly large language models: environmental and financial costs, biases and hegemonic viewpoints inherited from poorly documented training data, unequal access and power, and the danger of people attributing meaning and accountability to synthetic text.

The paper did, however, make a strong theoretical claim: because an LM is trained on linguistic form without direct access to communicative intent, it cannot possess meaning, understanding, or a model of the world. The authors described it as "haphazardly stitching together sequences of linguistic forms" according to statistical regularities -- hence "a stochastic parrot."

That distinction matters. The popular slogan discards the paper's detailed analysis of actual risks while treating its most controversial theoretical premise as an established scientific result. It has escaped into pop culture as a drive-by anti-LLM slogan -- something people repeat instead of investigating what these systems represent internally, how post-training changes their behavior, or what they can actually do.

Emily M. Bender, Timnit Gebru, Angelina McMillan-Major, and Shmargaret Shmitchell, "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models Be Too Big?"

https://s10251.pcdn.co/pdf/2021-bender-parrots.pdf

Ironically, the objection that rhetoric was replacing scientific analysis appeared almost as soon as the phrase itself -- indeed, before the paper's formal publication. In January 2021, Michael Lissack published a response characterizing the draft as an advocacy piece that enumerated harms while leaving its assumptions, potential benefits, and cost-benefit trade-offs largely unexamined.

"The Slodderwetenschap (Sloppy Science) of Stochastic Parrots -- A Plea for Science to NOT Take the Route Advocated by Gebru and Bender"

https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.10098


"does that token in that spot increase or decrease the likelihood of solving this long range programming task?"

It's not correct or not, it's a gradient based on the reward signal.


My poor understanding is that an LLM does not "know" either. It basically uses probabilities to predict the next word based on a large matrix of probable outcomes.

For example, say I ask an LLM, "What sentence in English contains every letter in the alphabet?"

It would respond with something like:

"The quick fox jumps over the lazy, brown [next word]"

(Assume all the words were previously guessed correctly at this point)

The LLM guesses the last word based on what it has been trained on. Let's pretend the matrix is small, and the options narrow down to something like:

1. Dog (99.9% confidence) 2. Cow (85% confidence) 3. Bag (75% confidence) 4. Crayon (25% confidence)

The machine can confidently determine the final word of the sentence, "The quick fox jumps over the lazy, brown dog" because that sentence is unique because it is often used for testing things like fonts, a fun piece of trivia, and so on.

Brown Cow is not a bad guess because it's a type of cow and a yogurt brand. Brown bags and brown crayons are also perfectly rational adjectives to describe those common items and are not a bad guess either.

However, in the context of that sentence, dog is the most correct answer because one is unlikely to have written "The quick fox jumps over the lazy, brown crayon," thus it is quite improbable to be the answer.

My understand is this is where hallucinations can often come from. If the trivia about the sentence happened to not be in common in the data set, then "brown cow" might not be a terrible guess. There is clearly something rational behind that answer, but it's not correct in the sense that it answers the question correctly nor followed the instruction properly.

I'm sure the LLMs we have are far more capable these days. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if an LLM could check its answer by counting the distinct letters in each word to verify. Not sure though.

Again, this is just a poor example based on my understanding, but I hope it helps (and is more correct than not).

Edit: Pretend word = token. It's technically tokens and not entire words, but I didn't not want to get into tokenization of words.


It knows nothing of correctness or winning. It is predicting only what is most likely given its corpus.

You can feel his love for her. Heartbreaking.


I’d say everyone got on the internet, and it turned into the equivalent of your local bar for discussions


Then LLM bots got on and it turned into an email spam folder.


That predates LLMs, but I get your point.

But besides bots, there's also "low value" comments, the "who's listening in 2026" type comments. Undiscernable from a bot, adds no value, can be omitted and you wouldn't miss anything.

And the worst part is that LLMs can generate more interesting comments than a large chunk of online people can.


Exactly - I am a lawyer and we are told to use dedicated AI products as much and however we want. There will be errors made


Much to the often-reported chagrin of judges across the country.


And when it comes, people will use it for porn, memes, and to argue with each other in bad faith


People?


Some people.


What stuffy traditional practices does the UK have?


It’s not western etiquette and makes no sense to me


Using your fork, knife, or spoon to point at a person is absolutely considered rude. Gesturing with utensils likewise (because you can shower others with cast off detritus.)

A quick Google search will turn up hundreds of results corroborating this.


Or just consider the “asshole dinner guest” trope that appears in so many TV shows and movies. They will always be talking too loudly and gesticulating/pointing with their cutlery.


Tinder was launched in 2012 though


the word "about" in "about 15 years ago" indicates that the writer is making an estimate because exacting precision wrt the timeframe is immaterial to what is being conveyed. Since 2012 was 14 years ago, "about 15" is close enough.


This might be the first time one of these statements hasn't made me feel old. 2012 feels like 84 years ago.


That is _about_ 15 years ago.


How is this different from an SE, which has been existing since 2004?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societas_Europaea


> Current EU company structures like the European Company (SE) are made for public companies and ill-suited for startups due to high capital requirements, complex formation processes, and heavy administrative burdens. A flexible, tailored EU-wide entity for startups will solve these issues.

From the FAQ https://www.eu-inc.org/faq


Thank you - it is indeed €120k minimum capital

Then I suggest they make noise to lower it to €1 - much easier than creating a new legal structure


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